gohome: We are in New York and we are eating bajadera
deputy: good evening and bon appetit
deputy: do you have some vegetarian food, too?
gohome: thanks, we are viewing the work of Milica Tomic and Katherine Carl is speaking about it. She is speaking about Turbo Folk.
b92: there is no tone do you hear us
deputy: NO thats what I was wandering too
b92: it seems thta we will have to do some adjustments
b92: do you hear now!
dp: halo, can you hear us
b92: no sorry do you see us
b92: we see you so hy to everybody
deputy: after those adjustments should there be a possibillity to lissen to your conversation also through this page - outside the dinner room??
b92: there is tone but tone is veary weak so could you tune up a little bit please
gohome: We are hoping to hear you...but it is very nice to see that you have joined us.
b92: we can hear ourselves over the net so you should hear us too
b92: we hear some industrial noise from time to time
deputy: me too
b92: is it coming from you?
deputy: no!
gohome: The group here includes Katherine Carl, May Joseph, Irit Rogoff, Drazen Pantic, Danica Dakic,Jonus Ademovic
gohome: Katherine is citing Adorno and wondering about new communities forming as a result of aligned and non-aligned countries?
b92: Here we have Milica Tomic, Sasa Boskovic, Branimir Stojanovic and Svebor Midzic
gohome: Now we are doing introductions.
deputy: thanks, we can here you now
b92: we too
gohome: That is aligned and non alligned vis a vis the US
gohome: Milica, could you pose a question to our guests?
b92: over the chat or by voice?
gohome: I am not hearing you so we must rely on chat.
b92: Milica would like to explain how did come to pass that she and branimir are not in NY but here in belgrade
b92: also Milica would like to pose question
gohome: Katherine has already read your statement so that has been covered.
gohome: Please!
b92: oh, great thakx Katherine
gohome: This is Fritzie but thats ok
b92: So would you like us to pose question over net or by voice streaming
sandra and dan: hello fellows
gohome: Hello dan and Sandra..Milica yes,,,in writing over chat please
sandra and dan: is disscusion already going on?
gohome: Milica?
b92: If the other side of globalization is ethno funamentalism would it mean that only space of freedom would be in between anvil of globalization and hammer of ethno fundamentalism. How to invent this space beacuse it has to be invented
b92: to sandra: yes, but there is problem with the sound
srdjan normal: no image here
sandra and dan: Problems of this world can be solved by people who don't have this problems.
gohome: We are now talking about the "former non-aligned countries" and the that has developed and is nat
b92: could you please speak a little bit more clearly and can you hear us?
gohome: ural and work but that the Bush alliance is un-natural.
gohome: I will ask Milica's question when there is a moment. They are heavy into this discussion
sandra and dan: people change alliances very often nowadays. ARTWORLD IS NOT DIFFERENT, NOT VERY DIFFERENT FROM POLITICS.
b92: sasa b: hi! I am not quite sure whether you can hear or see us... but speaking of alliances, I am not quite sure whether you genuinely believe that there could be any such thing as a natural alliance???
gohome: Sandra and Dan(this is from Fritzie not the guests...why would it bbe?
b92: there is also sasa's question
sandra and dan: PROBABLY OUR WORLD IS BECOMING MUCH MORE FRAGMETED THAN BEFORE.
b92: can you see us?
gohome: We can see but not hear
b92: to sandra: that is consequance of globalization
b92: can you hear now
and dan: I believe so!
gohome: no, no sound
gohome: keep typing
b92: ok
gohome: Sorry, I am having trouble breaking into the discussion...
b92: is there any chance of interuption or break any time soon :)
gohome: yes..
b92: great
gohome: Jonas mentions Alpadria as a natural alliance
b92: havent you run out of your 4 minutes :) we would like to participate in dialogue
gohome: We are now trying to see the script of the chat
gohome: Do you there feel that there are"natural alliances between countries/groups?
b92: Alpadria is par excelance ideological project there is no such thing as "pure" geography everything is mediated by ideology
sandra and dan: let them give a glimpse to the chat scriipt
gohome: Drazen was saying that there is no space/a sharp boundry between the globalized world and national fundamentalists
gohome: Please start chatting now and we will shut up.
sandra and dan: we are now in Alpeadria area, exactly more Adria, we don't see any real alliances with anyone, there is this huge euro project, what you see is what you gonna get, Alpeadria is anacronism. sandra and dan: WE AGREE WITH DRAEN.
b92: I think that there is a great risk of oversimplyfying here. There have historically been countries or cultures that found some reason to align with each other at some point of history. I think that we tend to see the current historical moment as THE defining one. I think this is great over-simplyfication. My qquestion: what is left of globalization if the US troops for example leave the whole world and return to the US? (go home)?
gohome: Please send sound or chat -this to
gohome: do you think the US could totally go home?
sandra and dan: IF THE us troops leave the whole world, we'll still have all the world movie theaters full with Us movies.
b92: to Drazen: They are two sides of the same coin globalization is the place of production of ethno fundamentalsim or better segragation identity is practised in the "West" as well
gohome: May Joseph says that the trajectory of globalization was begun in the 10th century
b92: to sandra: quote: Art allways arrives with the sixt fleet Donald Kuspit
sandra and dan: Globalization is old social vector indeed, but when did start?
gohome: Irit Rogoff is saying that many flows of migration had nothing to do with east /west
sandra and dan: to b92: who was Dobnald Kuspit, conceptual art worrior...
b92: No american theoretician of art living in NY
gohome: Jonus is saying that capitalist distribution methods are so fundamental to globalization
b92: obviously
sandra and dan: to b92: we thought it was a name of sixth fleet.
b92: No cookie but close
gohome: He is discussing the McDonalds in Sarajevo and its history and that the distribtion methods were able to target local tastes
gohome: Kuspit is Kathrines doctoral advisor
b92: During the bombing in Belgrade McDonalds in order to survive has put serbian national hat "sajkaca" on the hamburger commercial
b92: glad to here that Adorno connection I suppose
gohome: Everyone here is laughing at this a lot
gohome: Drazen calls these soft bullets but that these don't hit the Muslim targets
b92: Globalization always finds a way to our hearts
sandra and dan: globalization is very pragmatic
b92: McDonalds doesnt functiones without McDonalds Douglas planes says Sasa
b92: That was said by Thomas Fridnan
gohome: So should this be a serious question...the military/commerical connection?
b92: yes
sandra and dan: there was this idea that americans never bomb countires where is a macDonalds, rule breaked in Belgrade...
b92: what is Irit saying?
b92: do you hear us now
sandra and dan: to fritzie: what is for dinner over there? something global or local?
b92: I think that McDonlads are sort of the workers restaurants of therld
gohome: No we don't hear you and Irit was saying that she was reminded by the recent death of George Harrison on the distribution of knowledge of Indian culture via the Beatles via the pop culture of the 60-70's and now India is everywhere...and everyone now knows what a sitar is
b92: BTW, do you have some questions for mILICA
gohome: May is talking about the avantguard borrowing from "world music" etc.
normal group: image+sound ok now
gohome: hi normal people
b92: Maybe Indian culture is everywhere and everyone knows what sitar is but that guy who is owner of the bopal factory that blow up still sits in the USA
sandra and dan: we would like to remind May on relation between Picasso and Africa
normal group: pozdrav.
sandra and dan: pozdrav normalnoj grupi
normal group: tnx. cu sandra and dan.
b92: pozdrav normaqlnoj grupi
normal group: are they talking about music? like what is west? what is east?
normal group: ot-pozdrav -> b92
gohome: They are using music etc as emblems I believe
sandra and dan: we ahve the feeling that we need to globalise chat in relation to dinner in location1...
b92: is wather everything that intersts you :)
b92: bas tako sandra
gohome: Drazen wants to know what the weather is like. and he is showing off the candy Bajadara
normal group: srdjan heard that. my amazement are the change of how we map the co-ordinates.
normal group: does west-east really apply?
gohome: Drazen is interested only in comfort.
normal group: bajadere!!!!!
sandra and dan: Drazen is comfortable in NY, isn't he?
b92: You can buy Bajader in Sebia
gohome: That is a happy result of western distribution practice
normal group: in new york, drazen gets them from his basement
sandra and dan: in croatia we have too much of those, ali danas smo jeli lignje i nije bilo lose, dapace bolje od Bajadera.
normal group: lignje su super.
b92: This is a real Third-world countries situation -- you eat drink talk, and we can see you, but that is as far as it goes, we are cut off from the world...
sandra and dan: mozda bismo trebali malo na nsem loikalnom jeziku chatati da osrtvarimo globalizaciju chat-a nad vecerom u Manhattenu
normal group: i love bajadere's socialist brown-gold design. like brown suits.
dp: lignje su super, ali to nije cutural symbol...
b92: and Aleksandar ate salmon in Sarajevo two weeks ago
normal group: lignje su network
sandra and dan: lignje su jaki politicki simbol, narocito ui dalamciji, oni razdvajaju dvije jako razlicite kulture na lokalnom nivou
b92: why bajedare are cultural symbol besidesw Sobas work
gohome: May is discussing Jimmy Hendrix and his use of Indian iconography
normal group: bajadere did not reach jimmy. lignje...perhaps
b92: Hendrix died thirty years ago in his own vomit
sandra and dan: bajadere su orijentalne plesacice... ili su nekad buile a sad se spominjale preko lokalno globaliziranog komforta cokoladnog ukusa
b92: you have now Svebor in the screen from Belgrade (if anyone can see).
sandra and dan: to b92. ne vidimo nista, je li to Kranjc Svebor ili ...
normal group: nothing to see b92
b92: ne, Svebor Midzic iz Beograda
normal group: can they show it by moving the camera
b92: do you see anyone from Belgrade?
gohome: Irit is now addressing the post colonialist discourse collides here at the table with postcommunist discourse and is trying to bring these two together...Reconciling a violent history both of intertextuality of trauma like Milica's piece "I am MT" Also Irit wishes that she could hear you.
normal group: no, not at all
gohome: As do we all
sandra and dan: we would also like to move the camera, but we don't have one
dp: we see you (vidimo vas)
gohome: We see you but do not hear you ...
b92: go home group: can you see us in Belgrade?
dp: ali vas ne cujemo ( but we can not hear you)
b92: DP, probajte da pojacate (try to turn up the volume)
dp: kucajte
sandra and dan: pucajte
b92: ko kuca otvorice mu se
dp: sem toga vi mozete da pusite
normal group: ne gusite
gohome: The delay and the glitches in tech reflects western modernity and the third world's version is an echo of the wests
b92: Thats the only reason why we lighted cigaretts\
b92: everything functions here
gohome: You have the great non-tech advantage of being able to smoke at the table.
normal group: how about nationalism? can nationalism exist based on rapid violation of music copyrights?
b92: and you do not have a tone and since we can hear you you shoul hear us at least so techi claims it
gohome: Jonas is worrying about the rise of fundamentalism here in US (Christian) and elsewhere
dp: you do not have to excuse yourselves fro somoking
b92: yes, Aleksandar Boskovic: what is copyright anyway? I am anti-copyright, as all the others here in BG...
dp: copy-left
b92: Absolutely
dp: seen latest book of lessig?
b92: normal group: where are you?
normal group: i would like to speak about that what Aleksandar Boskovic sais.
gohome: please...
normal group: Can that, and did it really have the notion of nationalism, and in which way
normal group: becuase it is a steall from everywhere.
normal group: So then what is nationalism.
normal group: the reign of the everything?
b92: normal group: the ownership is theft (Proudhon) -- a comment from Branimir S. As for my little self, I do not quite see where you connect copyright and nationalism
gohome: Irit says that home is a refuge from the NationSTate
dp: copyright as well as natianalism are both agressive forces
normal group: I don't. It is a question about globalization and nationalism, the title of this meeting. Globalization is tied direclty to copyright. Can violation of the copyright be nationalistic? Like in the case of turbo Folk?
gohome: Jonus is discussing the condition Milica wrote about "inside immigrant" is also a refuge.
b92: Irit: but what do you say to people whose home is within their Nation-State? Branimir: Nation is a 19-th century problem, not modern problem. Nations died in the concentration camps during the World War Two. The segregation that globalisation brings was born in the Nazi death camps.
gohome: Irit is concerned that that is a place that one can drop out and is concerned about that
b92: Irit: can you drop out of home and of your Nation-State
Jason: Nationalism is really headed more into a new concept of tribalism..
gohome: Yes she believes that it is possible and dangerous
b92: The situation of Aleksandar Boskovic (no home, no nation-state): a passport of one country (macedonia), ID cards of two others (yugoslavia and brazil), and lives in the fourth one (south africa). Multiculturalism is OK. As Vuk Cosic puts it, No Land's Man
dan and sandra: it is real good talking about one person. seems much more exact somehow
normal group: that's a legislative condition. makes it legal therefore legible. what is one is not able to get the papers, like the floating population in shen-zen, china
normal group: or the US?
gohome: Jonas is saying that "yes" home is shifting it is like an onion without a core and it is neither/nor
gohome: Jonas is now speaking about the very unique and strange situation of the ex-Yugoslavs
b92: does Jonas have a home?
gohome: Also we will be ending streaming in about 5 minutes...I am very sad to say
dan and sandra: home is where the heart is... and heart is always together with us, better it is.
b92: Branimir: Yugoslavia is under occupation and there is no sense speaking about it because political subjetivity of the people who live wihtin it is constituted. Otherwise, that talk looks like a sadistic sermon.
normal group: home is...we don't know, really
gohome: Jonas has a home as long as his parents are living and that is Mostar where they live.
gohome: Branimir: do you vote?
gohome: Can you influence the system from within
b92: Svebor: I feel that man is trul[A
dan and sandra: to fritzie: what are the dishes over there, we will realy like to know?
b92: Branimir: No I do not vote mine is the politics of distance from the government
normal group: can danica make a photo of the camera...of us?
b92: Svebor: I feel that success is not in being a citizen of the world but only when you are equaly unwelcome everywhere :)
gohome: Irit wants to address the notion of Yugoslavia being under occupation. What kind of subject position are you envisioning?
b92: Branimir: Totallity of ExYU is under most vulgar, common military occupation
gohome: Irit says"come on"
gohome: We will say goodbye now and thank you very much for your time and thoughtfullness
b92: Branimir: Most simple, very trivial, I would just like to all of the occupation forces leave ExYU space
gohome: Thanks to all others as well.
b92: Does this mean it is all over
dan and sandra: we are left without anwers?
gohome: we will vote accordingly
b92: are there no more disccusion
normal group: just started.
gohome: We will continue the discusion via email etc and look for answers somewhere
b92: I also feel we just started
b92: We were just warming up
dan and sandra: to b92: it is also globalization issue that we need to stop when center determines so.
b92: and you just recntly paid any attention to us
normal group: microsoft needs 2 minutes to start-up the system. we need 2 hours. but that's fine.
dan and sandra: we are happy not to be a Mictosoft
gohome: Yes, we just started .... keep talking over there and let us know what answers you come up with...and enjoy your cigarettes!
normal group: exactly. delay and slowness is a kind of freedom.
dan and sandra: enjoy your food what ever it is!
Jason: Jason logged off
gohome: sandra: we are eating beans and sausage that Danica prepared
[180a58e3.00cacc80.taisha] (16/12/2001 15:28.19) gohome: It's me Katherine now
dan and sandra: hi kathy, how is going?
b92: hello K.
gohome: I am sorry that we have to stop because of time, but we will try to leave open the stream so you can chat more
normal group: he kathy
b92: tell us what do you want to say
dan and sandra: we see the plug getting out of the socket.
normal group: we have an image of a non-finished wine glass.
dp: uja.. pl poz, vidiom se uskoro u bgd...
b92: Katherin?
normal group: who didn't drink it?
gohome: maybe it's more interesting to chat between other places without NY present only through NY tech
dp: dp logged off
normal group: normal group will be in belgrade dec-30 to jan 14
b92: by and welcome normal group
normal group: tnx. nadam se da se vidimo.
Wendy and Carol: Wendy and Carol logged off
b92: nadam se takodje
normal group: kako?
dan and sandra: dan and sandra are now in Zadar, going back to amsterdam beginning next year. Greetings to B92 and normal group! Bon apetit in NY, we are logging off.
b92: gohome are you still there
normal group: nice, thanks d and s. bok tamo.
b92: normalci ko ste vi ako nije nepristojno
b92: lepa ulica
normal group: lepa kola...
Allyson: Allyson logged off
dan and sandra: puse bura, smrzla nam se crivca. sretan put svima where ever you go for your home!
normal group: ovde srdjan i sabine
b92: nice car is the red car yours
normal group: don't have a car, just bicycle. black
dan and sandra: dan and sandra logged off
b92: ovde milica, trsa, sasa i ostali. pozdrav svima i log off btw, mozete nam pisati na svebor@dijafragma.com
normal group: b92 nas mail je s+s@normalgroup.net
normal group: normal group logged off
gohome: gohome logged off